I was interested to discover how you addressed compulsory Mass attendance in schools since that was the title of the article... and then you didn't? What did I miss? Everything you did say was interesting and I will make time to read Sheed. Maybe he will address it?
I trust your thoughts more than most internet people I have never met so if you'd like to expand on this I'm interested. Even if we won't agree on that specifically :)
I guess it was a bit more of a conversation opener than a cut and dried case! But the reference is to the first Sheed quote under my heading of Compulsion that Rankles. I don’t think that children should be allowed to do as they please and never be required to attend Mass, but I do think there should be an element of freedom within community where a good number of students either do not believe or are approaching the Eucharist with mortal sin. The compulsory element becomes quite problematic especially in high schools. If I were an educator in a high school, I would allow for the freedom to choose a study hall or something (or simply a free morning) rather than place an undo burden on conscience. If faith isn’t freely chosen, it is not chosen at all. But it’s a big discussion and I’d love to hear the thoughts of others.
I taught high school theology in 5 different Catholic schools over the course of a decade. One of the first things I told my students at the beginning of the year was that I couldn’t force them to pray. They were welcome to join me In prayer at the beginning of class, but if they did not want to pray, I simply asked that they be quiet and respectful of those who did. Just telling them that was HUGE for some
Of my students coming from Catholic elementary schools where they were berated for not reciting memorized prayers out loud with their class. Before each (unfortunately) compulsory all school mass, I begged my students to NOT receive the Eucharist if they weren’t properly disposed—and many of my students did the brave thing and stayed in their seats during communion! I think they appreciated the fact that I wasn’t naive about where many of them were in their faith, and they wanted to be authentic. The last anecdote I’ll share: one year I was teaching juniors and a fellow priest-teacher and I came up with an assignment to have the students read the entire gospel of Mark and write an essay answering the question, “Who do you say that I am?” We wanted them to really wrestle with Jesus’ claims about his identity and the implications of acknowledging him as Lord. The other two teachers of juniors were HORRIFIED at this idea because, as they said, “what if they say they don’t believe in Jesus?!” As if we could somehow stem the tide of their disbelief by ignoring it. Sigh.
After mothering many for a span of 33 years, it seems to me that an invitational faith is often more effective.
Going from a more relaxed style of homeschooling to Seton for high school, my daughter is now experiencing faith as more of a burden or drudgery. That's not to say she'd be strong otherwise or that learning should be comfortable or easy, if that's your goal. It's just not always their immediate goal as they search for meaning in life. Maybe it's also similar to reading great literature for pleasure and enjoyment, as opposed to for a research paper or book report? Sort of sucks the joy out of it.
I like what Elizabeth suggested about adoration, which, unlike the reception of the Eucharist, is always open and available to everyone of every status and condition.
Someone I know who teaches at a Catholic school recently came to me in horror and sadness because her principal had interviewed a Muslim woman to teach the second grade class. This woman in question would wear a hijab daily. My friend was absolutely furious and was even more upset because neither the principal or the pastor at the associated church or many of the other teachers seemed very bothered by this. Yet they would be expecting her to teach these children about the Sacraments of Holy Communion, Confession, etc. The school is visited by religious sisters fairly often - what are the children to think, comparing their habits to the hijab? The insanity of hiring someone whose beliefs are completely opposed to Catholicism boggles the mind.
This, to me, is just a small indication that something is very wrong with many (most?) Catholic school systems. Another is that my parish is associated with a high school and a grade school and yet the numbers of children we see at Mass are so very low (I'm the organist so I attend every Mass at the high school-related parish and one at the grade school-related parish - they can't escape my notice ha). My uncle's children all went through these schools and now at college age 3/4 are unsure about whether they believe or not - and everyone says we have a great school! Yet I can't think of a single vocation from our parish in the last thirty years except for my own brother - and he did not attend Catholic school (we were home-schooled).
That said, in regard to compulsory Mass attendance, throughout my childhood I attended daily Mass. We didn't get an option not to go, either - with six children about nine years apart from youngest to oldest, my mother had to bring all or stay home. Sometimes we did get tired of the routine. But I think we tried to focus on prayer. We had prayer books, we talked about what intentions we could pray for, my brothers served, and so on. Today, not all of my siblings are solid in their faith, but I believe this has to do more with other family factors (I can't really get into it, but it does involve abandonment by our father, and we know that the father's faith and the child's view of the father in terms of respect and love greatly influences the child's faith).
Is there a difference between the daily Mass attendance that my siblings and I grew up with and the compulsory attendance of children at Catholic schools? I don't know. Perhaps it would be better to put the focus on family attendance rather than school attendance? I think some parents think that their children going once during the week is "good enough" so they don't bring them on Sundays. It isn't hard to see how this would lead to the children thinking that Mass on Sundays isn't that important, but they miss out on the wider community of the Faith, and seeing how it is not limited to a school activity, but is a worldwide communion.
Sorry for the length! I hope these thoughts are useful or helpful to your discussion on this topic.
I have not read Sheed’s full text yet, but from the quotes you have included it is hard for me to understand what he thinks a Catholic school should look like. If there are no formal religion classes (and if there are, only teach that God is love) and Mass is optional, what would make that Catholic school different from a Christian school or even some public schools? The “God is Love” religion classes were already tried in the 70s and 80s and had a disastrous result of producing adults who had no idea what the Catholic Church really taught. His argument that any deep religious formation should be avoided because it might be too confusing or chaotic also seems odd. If the problem is how it’s being taught, it seems that the solution would be to revise the way it’s taught so that it’s not chaotic, not just avoid teaching it altogether. Teenagers are not dumb, they are going to ask hard questions, and a Catholic school better be ready to answer those questions with Truth in love, or the student will go seek an answer from somewhere else and it won’t be Truth.
I agree with his view on compulsory Mass, however, perhaps compulsory adoration would be a better option. One does not fall in love with the Eucharist without actually being in the presence of the Eucharist and adoration would be a way to do that without the peer pressured risk of unworthy communion.
You said, “ His argument that any deep religious formation should be avoided because it might be too confusing or chaotic also seems odd.”
That is not an accurate statement. That is not what he said. In fact, that is quite opposite to what he says in the context of the document. Sheed spoke
these words in 1953. There was no homeschooling and the 1970s educational models were still years away. He was a master catechist and the classroom model was the only one available to religion teachers. So that is his context. His recommendations were more about the disposition of the heart and behavior of the teachers than about the setting. If you read the document you will see that most modern religion teachers/catechists would actually be uncomfortable with his high standards for the teacher herself. Likely many would reject it as too structured or demanding. So again, your concerns will likely be addressed in the reading. That is not to say that you will agree with everything… just have a better understanding.
I have been interested how the French parent. I read a bunch of French parenting books before I became a mom. My big take away was the French are not as big on compulsion anything especially compared to American school systems. They don’t worry about college applications and resumes in preschool the way American parents do. A French mother would say, “swim lessons are for fun and a bonding moment for our family!” An American parent would say, “why won’t my one year old just put their face in the water?! They will never get on the American Olympic team at this rate!!”
Perhaps this is another area that Catholic American parents “checklist” their kids’ faith lives. Secretly hoping that if they can say the whole rosary by themselves before the age of two, they will be a priest when they grow up.
I was interested to discover how you addressed compulsory Mass attendance in schools since that was the title of the article... and then you didn't? What did I miss? Everything you did say was interesting and I will make time to read Sheed. Maybe he will address it?
I trust your thoughts more than most internet people I have never met so if you'd like to expand on this I'm interested. Even if we won't agree on that specifically :)
I guess it was a bit more of a conversation opener than a cut and dried case! But the reference is to the first Sheed quote under my heading of Compulsion that Rankles. I don’t think that children should be allowed to do as they please and never be required to attend Mass, but I do think there should be an element of freedom within community where a good number of students either do not believe or are approaching the Eucharist with mortal sin. The compulsory element becomes quite problematic especially in high schools. If I were an educator in a high school, I would allow for the freedom to choose a study hall or something (or simply a free morning) rather than place an undo burden on conscience. If faith isn’t freely chosen, it is not chosen at all. But it’s a big discussion and I’d love to hear the thoughts of others.
I taught high school theology in 5 different Catholic schools over the course of a decade. One of the first things I told my students at the beginning of the year was that I couldn’t force them to pray. They were welcome to join me In prayer at the beginning of class, but if they did not want to pray, I simply asked that they be quiet and respectful of those who did. Just telling them that was HUGE for some
Of my students coming from Catholic elementary schools where they were berated for not reciting memorized prayers out loud with their class. Before each (unfortunately) compulsory all school mass, I begged my students to NOT receive the Eucharist if they weren’t properly disposed—and many of my students did the brave thing and stayed in their seats during communion! I think they appreciated the fact that I wasn’t naive about where many of them were in their faith, and they wanted to be authentic. The last anecdote I’ll share: one year I was teaching juniors and a fellow priest-teacher and I came up with an assignment to have the students read the entire gospel of Mark and write an essay answering the question, “Who do you say that I am?” We wanted them to really wrestle with Jesus’ claims about his identity and the implications of acknowledging him as Lord. The other two teachers of juniors were HORRIFIED at this idea because, as they said, “what if they say they don’t believe in Jesus?!” As if we could somehow stem the tide of their disbelief by ignoring it. Sigh.
After mothering many for a span of 33 years, it seems to me that an invitational faith is often more effective.
Going from a more relaxed style of homeschooling to Seton for high school, my daughter is now experiencing faith as more of a burden or drudgery. That's not to say she'd be strong otherwise or that learning should be comfortable or easy, if that's your goal. It's just not always their immediate goal as they search for meaning in life. Maybe it's also similar to reading great literature for pleasure and enjoyment, as opposed to for a research paper or book report? Sort of sucks the joy out of it.
I like what Elizabeth suggested about adoration, which, unlike the reception of the Eucharist, is always open and available to everyone of every status and condition.
Someone I know who teaches at a Catholic school recently came to me in horror and sadness because her principal had interviewed a Muslim woman to teach the second grade class. This woman in question would wear a hijab daily. My friend was absolutely furious and was even more upset because neither the principal or the pastor at the associated church or many of the other teachers seemed very bothered by this. Yet they would be expecting her to teach these children about the Sacraments of Holy Communion, Confession, etc. The school is visited by religious sisters fairly often - what are the children to think, comparing their habits to the hijab? The insanity of hiring someone whose beliefs are completely opposed to Catholicism boggles the mind.
This, to me, is just a small indication that something is very wrong with many (most?) Catholic school systems. Another is that my parish is associated with a high school and a grade school and yet the numbers of children we see at Mass are so very low (I'm the organist so I attend every Mass at the high school-related parish and one at the grade school-related parish - they can't escape my notice ha). My uncle's children all went through these schools and now at college age 3/4 are unsure about whether they believe or not - and everyone says we have a great school! Yet I can't think of a single vocation from our parish in the last thirty years except for my own brother - and he did not attend Catholic school (we were home-schooled).
That said, in regard to compulsory Mass attendance, throughout my childhood I attended daily Mass. We didn't get an option not to go, either - with six children about nine years apart from youngest to oldest, my mother had to bring all or stay home. Sometimes we did get tired of the routine. But I think we tried to focus on prayer. We had prayer books, we talked about what intentions we could pray for, my brothers served, and so on. Today, not all of my siblings are solid in their faith, but I believe this has to do more with other family factors (I can't really get into it, but it does involve abandonment by our father, and we know that the father's faith and the child's view of the father in terms of respect and love greatly influences the child's faith).
Is there a difference between the daily Mass attendance that my siblings and I grew up with and the compulsory attendance of children at Catholic schools? I don't know. Perhaps it would be better to put the focus on family attendance rather than school attendance? I think some parents think that their children going once during the week is "good enough" so they don't bring them on Sundays. It isn't hard to see how this would lead to the children thinking that Mass on Sundays isn't that important, but they miss out on the wider community of the Faith, and seeing how it is not limited to a school activity, but is a worldwide communion.
Sorry for the length! I hope these thoughts are useful or helpful to your discussion on this topic.
I have not read Sheed’s full text yet, but from the quotes you have included it is hard for me to understand what he thinks a Catholic school should look like. If there are no formal religion classes (and if there are, only teach that God is love) and Mass is optional, what would make that Catholic school different from a Christian school or even some public schools? The “God is Love” religion classes were already tried in the 70s and 80s and had a disastrous result of producing adults who had no idea what the Catholic Church really taught. His argument that any deep religious formation should be avoided because it might be too confusing or chaotic also seems odd. If the problem is how it’s being taught, it seems that the solution would be to revise the way it’s taught so that it’s not chaotic, not just avoid teaching it altogether. Teenagers are not dumb, they are going to ask hard questions, and a Catholic school better be ready to answer those questions with Truth in love, or the student will go seek an answer from somewhere else and it won’t be Truth.
I agree with his view on compulsory Mass, however, perhaps compulsory adoration would be a better option. One does not fall in love with the Eucharist without actually being in the presence of the Eucharist and adoration would be a way to do that without the peer pressured risk of unworthy communion.
You said, “ His argument that any deep religious formation should be avoided because it might be too confusing or chaotic also seems odd.”
That is not an accurate statement. That is not what he said. In fact, that is quite opposite to what he says in the context of the document. Sheed spoke
these words in 1953. There was no homeschooling and the 1970s educational models were still years away. He was a master catechist and the classroom model was the only one available to religion teachers. So that is his context. His recommendations were more about the disposition of the heart and behavior of the teachers than about the setting. If you read the document you will see that most modern religion teachers/catechists would actually be uncomfortable with his high standards for the teacher herself. Likely many would reject it as too structured or demanding. So again, your concerns will likely be addressed in the reading. That is not to say that you will agree with everything… just have a better understanding.
Fascinating read!
I have been interested how the French parent. I read a bunch of French parenting books before I became a mom. My big take away was the French are not as big on compulsion anything especially compared to American school systems. They don’t worry about college applications and resumes in preschool the way American parents do. A French mother would say, “swim lessons are for fun and a bonding moment for our family!” An American parent would say, “why won’t my one year old just put their face in the water?! They will never get on the American Olympic team at this rate!!”
Perhaps this is another area that Catholic American parents “checklist” their kids’ faith lives. Secretly hoping that if they can say the whole rosary by themselves before the age of two, they will be a priest when they grow up.
Thank you for another great read!